I guess we even got a little bit of a peak into the stuff you're working on, which is awesome. The Cognicast is a production of Cognitect, Inc. Cognitect are the makers of Datomic, and we provide consulting services around it, Clojure, and a host of other technologies to businesses ranging from the smallest startups to the Fortune 50. Clients Services Technologies Blog Cognicast Contact About. MICHAEL: I see where you're going, and I agree on the value of having a global namespace. In this episode of the O’Reilly Programming Podcast, I talk with Michael Nygard, a software architect at Cognitect. I might not do it on the level of every key just because of the massive overhead implied there. He shares his passion and energy for improvement with everyone he meets, sometimes even with their permission. We're not entering into the horizontal scaling era. That's when people really get into trouble. Who knows? Of course homes require maintenance. CRAIG: It really reminds me of that idea of shipping the URN along with the message and having it apply to the whole message really reminds me of having an XML default namespace, right? Cognitect. He shares his passion and energy for improvement with everyone he meets, sometimes even with their permission. Copyright 2017, Cognitect, a Nu Holdings, Ltd. company. But I've found that, by and large, when I'm listening to CDs and I'm trying to figure out what to add to my library to listen to again later, I almost always skip the live ones. Visibility into the consequences of the action you're about to take is even better. Michael Nygard October 17, 2013 Technology 2 650. You can find us on the Web at Cognitect.com and on Twitter, @Cognitect. CRAIG: Totally agree. Yeah, you wouldn't. Our guest today was Michael Nygard, on Twitter @MTNygard. EuroClojure is taking place in Bratislava, Slovakia, October 25th and 26th in 2016. CRAIG: Yeah, it's like 22. CRAIG: Likewise. Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 106 — Cognitect Blog Huffduffed by erichaberkorn on September 6th, 2016 In this episode, we talk to Michael Nygard about microservices and other CRAIG: What exactly do you mean by that? [Music: "Thumbs Up (for Rock N' Roll)" by Kill the Noise and Feed Me]. Block or report user Block or report mtnygard. In the relational database world, outer joins allow you to return a relations even when data is missing from one side of a join. Actually, that's going to let people consume the show in whatever way they like best. We always ask our guest to share with us a piece of advice, whatever they like. But with text I can multiplex it, right? The other thing is I can get behind a little bit and catch up, so I don't need to scale my service to match the peak demand or the sum of the peak demands of all of my consumers. CRAIG: There's often things going on where we can talk about them later that we can't talk now, so I don't need to go into any more of that. O’Reilly members experience live online training, plus books, videos, and digital content from 200+ publishers. You know we're getting good feedback. CRAIG: But rather, a URL that scopes that identifier to some particular semantic concept, if that makes sense. Anyway, do you think that would make sense, or is there a good way to spend a few more minutes kind of wrapping up what's out there so far? : Design and Deploy Production-Ready Software by Michael T. Nygard The Circuit Breaker Pattern Designing Software to Get Past 1.0 07:15 - Upfront Architecture Agile Software Development What does … As you are aware, if you've been listening, we have transcripts now, word-for-word transcripts that we post within a few days to a couple weeks of the episode going up, as we're able to. Maybe they're even formatted the same way, so you can't tell lexically which one it came from. In contrast, if you embrace continuous partial failure, it becomes much more like you're decomposing your failure domains into smaller and smaller grains and failures don't cross those boundaries. You can subscribe to The Cognicast, listen to past episodes, and view cover art, show notes, and episode transcripts at our home on the Web, cognitect.com/cognicast. He has spoken about “architecture without an end state” at numerous O’Reilly Software Architecture events, and he is the author of the book "Release It! You need to have the same standards for that stuff. I do like live music. So you can say, "I'm going to make the synchronous call. Some of us have been saying development is production. View Michael Nygard’s profile on LinkedIn, the world's largest professional community. You've sort of been building a story arch, I think it's fair to say, as you've made these posts. They created problems for other people. Michael Nygard serves as the VP, Customer Solutions for Cognitect, Inc.. Michael started at Cognitect, Inc. in June of 2011. MICHAEL: This can be routine, or it can be exciting. Our theme music for this episode is Thumbs Up (for Rock N' Roll) by killthenoise with Feed Me which was used under a Creative Commons License. This is an example where I'm like, okay, well, how would I apply that to dependencies? MICHAEL: That's not the only kind of system, though. It's hard to believe. Maybe you want to describe that for our listeners. You're going to talk back, whatever. He has lived with systems in production and learned hard lessons about the importance of operations. People can create accounts. All right, another thing I want to mention has to do with the podcast itself. Okay, so this is something that I wondered about when I was reading the article. 01:42 - Mike’s Background and Career Path Thus Far 02:59 - Complex Systems The Complexity Explorer 06:22 - … We mentioned them last time on the show. Cognitect, Inc. You can find Michael coding, writing, speaking, or thinking about how the Universe works. I think that great music has the ability to transport us, and it touches the human mind and heart in ways that few other things do. You have to have a plan, even if you also need to have flexibility. Michael is based in the United States. They're going to answer. Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 106 — Cognitect Blog Huffduffed by erichaberkorn on September 6th, 2016 In this episode, we talk to Michael Nygard about microservices and other CRAIG: Yeah. But I wanted to say that I think I had been referring to it when I was talking to you and said, "Oh, you should come on the show and talk about microservices since you're writing a microservices blog series." We have two different aspects to preserving team scale autonomy. ... cognitect-labs / onto. @mtnygard. This is one that I'm particularly – well, I don't want to put any pressure on you, but I always love to hear your take on this. MICHAEL: Well, I think we jumped ahead a bit. Michael T. Nygard! Oh, that button turns everything into," I don't know, "Klingon. We talk to Michael Nygard about simulation testing. I definitely can. I'm not going to go through all of them now or people won't have a reason to read Part 11. Well, I think everybody can agree that painful deployments are worse than easy deployments. MICHAEL: I think the thing about the music being performed live, and particularly in a concert hall, is that it surrounds you to such a degree that it's almost a tactile experience as well as an auditory one. MICHAEL: But I want to throw a different wrinkle at you. October 17, 2013 Tweet Share More Decks by Michael Nygard. I do listen to a lot of classical music, and pretty much all classical music is recorded live, other than movie scores where the orchestra is in a studio. Michael Nygard. Hopefully you're hearing this before that. And so that's going to let you, if you want to subscribe to just the transcripts or, in addition, subscribe to the transcripts. CRAIG: How do you protect yourself against that failure? Michael T. Nygard! Anyway, I want to come back to the series. Even that took a while because we bashed the software into an existing system, and then we couldn't undo it because it turned out that the package management system didn't let us install," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. CRAIG: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, and to be clear, I was paraphrasing Tim. Cognitect, Inc. You can find Michael coding, writing, speaking, or thinking about how the Universe works. We frequently talk about Clojure, ClojureScript, Datomic, agile software development, ... Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 141. I think a lot of people are really paying close attention to it. Say we're talking about a policy number for an insurance company. Please continue. CRAIG: Mm-hmm. Right now I'm talking to you over what's essentially a phone. 0 Likes. There are still a few things that you talk about here that I'd love to get your summary of and/or thoughts on. Mostly it's just mics at an ordinary concert performance, but they tend to be careful to not get the audience sounds into those. It was Richard Wagner's The Ring Cycle, which was fabulous. I wonder if you could take us through that arch in brief just to kind of outline it for people and then maybe we can drill down on a few areas. CRAIG: Where you're saying there's a context that flows down through the parts of this, I guess, document in the case of XML. That architecture requires you to have this approach to failure. The software is only done when it's deleted, so I'd rather see companies build things in smaller pieces that they can throw away more rapidly and rewrite when needed instead of trying to face down a three-year, multimillion-dollar rewrite of something because, at the bottom, it's still a ten year old implementation of the Java data objects beta standard that got customized for this company. MICHAEL: Yeah. It's like a soccer team, I think is how I heard it described, or a soccer game, but it's a very low number. You want to create a process that makes it easy to deal with. We have the ability to do automatic migrations at this point, so some of the techniques that Jez Humble talks about in Continuous Delivery work really well for this too. There's one other aspect of making a phone call, which you can think about placing the call and the ringing on the other end. 01:42 - Mike’s Background and Career Path Thus Far 02:59 - Complex Systems The Complexity Explorer 06:22 - Continuous Partial … But I'm just wondering whether you think it might make sense to break here and do a part two in the not too distant future that picks up from here. Our theme music is Thumbs Up (for Rock N' Roll) by Kill the Noise with Feed Me. Something they've had told to them or whatever it is. Context ... about Cognitect. MICHAEL: But if we sort of drill down under the hypothetical, maybe we had a big system outage. If you're thinking about giving a talk, and you should, make sure you get your proposal in before that deadline. I've seen a great, high performing, Agile team. MICHAEL: Okay. Michael Nygard knows this—which is why he's turned to the language of warfare to describe the ongoing campaign that is the agile workflow. I've come to understand at least that Tim Ewald is one that says you don't take a vacation by going to the airport and looking at whichever ticket is cheapest, buying that one, and then arriving and getting in the first cab and going wherever it's going to go, right? A year later, and one project manager different, the team room was disbanded. Yup. Maneuverable architecture - Michael Nygard (Cognitect, Inc.) Get The Microservices Video Collection now with O’Reilly online learning. You even have the option of doing that as a fallback. The program itself is static. That program then runs, and it maybe runs many times over the course of its lifetime. Cognitect, Inc. You can find Michael coding, writing, speaking, or thinking about how the Universe works. But increasingly, I want people to regard the machinery that you use for building your source code, deploying it, moving it out to production as its own machine worthy of service level agreements and production level attention. But when you have that approach to failure, you can do some other things. I think you covered that by saying, well, here are some architectures that will mean you can do that sort of thing all the time and it won't matter as much because it's factored out or you're separate. Maneuverable Web Architecture. Everyone had their ownership of their portion of the code base. When you and I first started to kick around the idea of having you on the show, it wasn't really kicking around. It is actually pretty important. Welcome to the show, Mike. In this episode of the O’Reilly Programming Podcast, I talk with Michael Nygard, a software architect at Cognitect.He has spoken about “architecture without an end state” at numerous O’Reilly Software Architecture … Well, anyway, so that's awesome advice, but we are wrapping it up here, so I can't forget and I cannot do this enough, but thank you so much for coming on today. MICHAEL: That's really hard to achieve in any kind of a home setup. The O’Reilly Programming Podcast: Embracing late changes, plurality, and decentralization. Circuit breakers are great. Living with systems in production taught Michael about the … With JavaFX. Another deadline associated with EuroClojure is the opportunity grant applications. ", a book about building software that survives the real world. I think your insights are amazing and valuable, and it's really been cool to see the series develop. But the problem is if you do just that in isolation, it will fail. I'm definitely looking forward to it. There's a callback. We certainly don't have to stop right now, but do you think it would make sense to kind of make this part one of two and come back maybe after you've had a chance to write a few more episodes in your series? When should we do it? In a way, you can frame it as the birthday problem. MICHAEL: Right. Writing about Datomic in a blog post titled, “The New Normal: Data Leverage,” Cognitect VP Michael Nygard explained how the legacy of object-oriented programming (OOP) poorly serves developers in an era when “the majority of our work is with data.” This is why I like working with Datomic. Even if one country's service is unavailable, other countries continue to function. I haven't articulated all this up, which is why Part 11 isn't up yet, but I think of these as sort of safety factors. So by embracing this anti-fragile approach and embracing continuous partial failure, we actually get the ability to do deployments much more frequently. Cool. Anyway, no, but the reason I'm wondering is because I've been using Spotify a lot recently to listen to music, and so I'll go to artists. If you needed to create customers in that database, so you actually have an app that's a customer touch point. Michael Nygard mtnygard. Yeah, legacy systems in Java, really, they can't make changes any more. That URL carries an explicit context along with it rather than having the implied context of the naked ID. You're falling into a trap that I often fall into, which is explaining one domain people don't understand by likening it to another domain they don't understand. The way that I describe it is that we have two different parts. All right, well, we'll begin then. Craig Andera - Cognicast Episode 139. CRAIG: Well, let me ask you a question. This has been true for some time. But I feel like there's something about using namespace keywords that makes that easier that maybe now you can have some sort of registry where you can keep documentation and it doesn't have to be attached to that particular service and that that might somehow aid people in navigating the sea of capabilities within an organization. CRAIG: Usually it's some sort of perceived or actual threat or risk. The development pipeline and tooling is the production system by which we do our job. The one that doesn't break keeps running its software, making assumptions about being able to talk to the first one, and we start having to change our risk model from saying it's all or nothing, either the machine is working or it's not, to a more probabilistic approach. Prior to Cognitect, he was at Relevance (merged into Cognitect), N6 Consulting, and Verizon. Sort of once you had the credentials, and once you were able to talk to it, maybe it met your needs. A component is an entity that belongs to some other entity, and has no independent lifecycle. :Design and Deploy Production Ready Software“; What DevOps really is; The values of DevOps and its relationship to the Agile Manifesto MICHAEL: The collected advice of The Cognicast. Second, it still loses out on that element of saying somebody somewhere needs to be in the position of deciding that you need a new team or that an old team needs to go away, or that you're making this large scale shift in strategy that requires coordination action among all the different teams. I'm like, have I really done 110 of these of this show? Here are all the folks from Cognitect who either committed code directly, or contributed significantly to research and design: Timothy Baldridge David Chelimsky Benoît Fleury Fogus Stuart Halloway Rich Hickey George Kierstein Carin Meier Alex Miller Michael Nygard Ghadi Shayban Joseph Smith Marshall Thompson. Pushing a rewritten history to a branch that was previously pushed get across out of any of the motivators DevOps! Is in word processors the series develop idea or set of ideas you 're talking about factories making factories that. On site and they update a dependency Nygard January 08, 2016.. 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